The joint Israeli-Palestinian memorial ceremony is understandably controversial. Despite its resilience, the Gaza war has left less space for such endeavors
Thank you Steven for writing about peace. We need peace between Israelis and Palestinians, between Yemenis, between Iraqis, between Syrians, and so on.
Thank you .The Group named Combatants for Peace have joined two seemingly disparate terms toward defining a way forward, . Watching the memorial ceremony was quite moving. Would that the group’s social ~human ideals influence will grow, but having to meet in closed forums to remain safe seems to indicate intimidation. A fine “think” piece
I felt so sad reading your son's comment about how compassion is shocking to people. I've never been in a society where that is the case. That is something I will have to think about.
Also, as I was taught, Torah study isn't just about reading the books. It is about bringing about the vision contained within them and integrating it into our lives. For those that believe it supports Jewish supremacism that looks very different from those who think it points to universal value for all life. I think it was a good reference.
It's not the compassion that is shocking, and remember, I haven't done a scientific survey. Rather, it struck him that the survivor had immediate compassion for the terrorists before working through his own grief first. That's where complexity comes in, being able to feel both instead of just one or the other.
I don't know if you are familiar with Kristen Neff, who writes about "fierce self-compassion". She notes that compassion crosses a line from being healthy to unhealthy when one shows unbounded compassion for destructive behavior. I believe that one should also draw a similar line when it comes to compassion for destructive behavior of others. I ultimately have compassion for terrorists in the sense that I want their suffering to end so that their own hearts can turn away from feeling that violence is a solution. But I certainly understand that such feelings are the exception and not the norm. So, it's worth thinking about the messaging when trying to make others feel safe enough to open their hearts and minds to gestures of peace and reconciliation.
We always get to this same place in our little conversations where I am so bewildered I don't know how to respond. Hopefully, over time my communication skills will improve!
The reference to the Talmud in Streve's article was actually in the "Pirkeh Avot" or "Ethics of the Fathers", to badly translate it. Here the "work" it refers to is in the study of the Torah, which is not exactly in our search for peace, happily as that brave ideal is otherwise mentioned by Steve.
We should remember that also in our religious ceremonies as in our Passover Seder Service is the saying "that in every generation, it stood for our fathers and for us, that there arise those who wish to destroy us, but the Almighty One, blessed be his name, saves us from their hands."
I stand corrected on the precise source. While studying the Torah was the focus of the precise passage, I feel it has taken on greater meaning as so teachings from Jewish tradition have
[⚠️ Suspicious Content] Steve, Your son makes an important point: the refusal to acknowledge military actions on any side of a conflict seems like a statement that it really didn't happen ("Holocaust Denial") or that one side's military action was entirely right (US students praising Hamas for Oct, 7, 2023).
I happened to watch the Zoom of Combatants for Peace/Families w. Losses memorial program. It was so sentimental and cloying I could not watch it for the whole time.
I am interested in your course on Israel-Palestine peace movements, but 120 years of peace efforts without success is too long. For me and many others, the Second Intifada after the Oslo Accords was evidence enough of the continuation of Palestinian anger and hate that was demonstrated in the 1940's Palestinian rejection of a state larger than Israel. Then there is the election of Hamas after the terrorist Arafat as leader of the majority of Gaza.
I am always aware that at least 50% of people who feel deeply hurt or traumatized simply want to pass that hurt along to others. That may be why "support groups" are helpful; they let traumatized people see that they are not the only ones so hurt. It seems the other 50% try to help others avoid a similar hurt, which may be an incentive in the peace movement.
But humans have to be realistic: greed, anger, and hate do exist and persist. I am reminded of a woman I met who escaped Germany after her parents had died young: she and her sister were awakened by German police or soldiers who broke into their house. They hid in their "root cellar" cold for hours, and then got out of Germany. She often ended, "What could we do? They had guns, we didn't." I wondered if she was recalling the contemptuous slogan, "They [the Jews] went like lambs to their slaughter."
I oppose an armed society like the US today, but Jews indeed need their own military which they control, and certainly not a binational state where their protection is again uncertain. Netanyahu has made many mistakes and excesses, but with no IDF, Israel would be gone.
I could go on also about the Palestinians' perpetual refugee-hood and need for UN funds, while after Oct.7 we hear about the destruction of nice homes, universities, and hospitals. Bibi is not the only hypocrite in the area.
It is indeed very complex because we cannot put limits on how militaristic society we want to be. Once you go down that route, new self-organizing phenomena emerge, such as violent settlers and political groups who want to engage in ethnic cleansing because they've convinced themselves there is no other option.
As for the ceremony, there was certainly no denying of the Oct. 7 atrocities. The point about the soldiers were they were left out, but I would be careful to draw conclusions that define the whole movement. I can say that Israeli parents who lost soldier children have been a part of previous ceremonies. Why not this time, I don't know.
Thank you Steven for writing about peace. We need peace between Israelis and Palestinians, between Yemenis, between Iraqis, between Syrians, and so on.
Thank you .The Group named Combatants for Peace have joined two seemingly disparate terms toward defining a way forward, . Watching the memorial ceremony was quite moving. Would that the group’s social ~human ideals influence will grow, but having to meet in closed forums to remain safe seems to indicate intimidation. A fine “think” piece
I felt so sad reading your son's comment about how compassion is shocking to people. I've never been in a society where that is the case. That is something I will have to think about.
Also, as I was taught, Torah study isn't just about reading the books. It is about bringing about the vision contained within them and integrating it into our lives. For those that believe it supports Jewish supremacism that looks very different from those who think it points to universal value for all life. I think it was a good reference.
It's not the compassion that is shocking, and remember, I haven't done a scientific survey. Rather, it struck him that the survivor had immediate compassion for the terrorists before working through his own grief first. That's where complexity comes in, being able to feel both instead of just one or the other.
I don't know if you are familiar with Kristen Neff, who writes about "fierce self-compassion". She notes that compassion crosses a line from being healthy to unhealthy when one shows unbounded compassion for destructive behavior. I believe that one should also draw a similar line when it comes to compassion for destructive behavior of others. I ultimately have compassion for terrorists in the sense that I want their suffering to end so that their own hearts can turn away from feeling that violence is a solution. But I certainly understand that such feelings are the exception and not the norm. So, it's worth thinking about the messaging when trying to make others feel safe enough to open their hearts and minds to gestures of peace and reconciliation.
We always get to this same place in our little conversations where I am so bewildered I don't know how to respond. Hopefully, over time my communication skills will improve!
Thank you for this post. I had no idea that the movement for peace and cooperation went back so far.
The reference to the Talmud in Streve's article was actually in the "Pirkeh Avot" or "Ethics of the Fathers", to badly translate it. Here the "work" it refers to is in the study of the Torah, which is not exactly in our search for peace, happily as that brave ideal is otherwise mentioned by Steve.
We should remember that also in our religious ceremonies as in our Passover Seder Service is the saying "that in every generation, it stood for our fathers and for us, that there arise those who wish to destroy us, but the Almighty One, blessed be his name, saves us from their hands."
I stand corrected on the precise source. While studying the Torah was the focus of the precise passage, I feel it has taken on greater meaning as so teachings from Jewish tradition have
[⚠️ Suspicious Content] Steve, Your son makes an important point: the refusal to acknowledge military actions on any side of a conflict seems like a statement that it really didn't happen ("Holocaust Denial") or that one side's military action was entirely right (US students praising Hamas for Oct, 7, 2023).
I happened to watch the Zoom of Combatants for Peace/Families w. Losses memorial program. It was so sentimental and cloying I could not watch it for the whole time.
I am interested in your course on Israel-Palestine peace movements, but 120 years of peace efforts without success is too long. For me and many others, the Second Intifada after the Oslo Accords was evidence enough of the continuation of Palestinian anger and hate that was demonstrated in the 1940's Palestinian rejection of a state larger than Israel. Then there is the election of Hamas after the terrorist Arafat as leader of the majority of Gaza.
I am always aware that at least 50% of people who feel deeply hurt or traumatized simply want to pass that hurt along to others. That may be why "support groups" are helpful; they let traumatized people see that they are not the only ones so hurt. It seems the other 50% try to help others avoid a similar hurt, which may be an incentive in the peace movement.
But humans have to be realistic: greed, anger, and hate do exist and persist. I am reminded of a woman I met who escaped Germany after her parents had died young: she and her sister were awakened by German police or soldiers who broke into their house. They hid in their "root cellar" cold for hours, and then got out of Germany. She often ended, "What could we do? They had guns, we didn't." I wondered if she was recalling the contemptuous slogan, "They [the Jews] went like lambs to their slaughter."
I oppose an armed society like the US today, but Jews indeed need their own military which they control, and certainly not a binational state where their protection is again uncertain. Netanyahu has made many mistakes and excesses, but with no IDF, Israel would be gone.
I could go on also about the Palestinians' perpetual refugee-hood and need for UN funds, while after Oct.7 we hear about the destruction of nice homes, universities, and hospitals. Bibi is not the only hypocrite in the area.
Thanks for your always informative messages.
With best regards for health and safety, Lynne Kane <batya.etel@gmail.com>
Hi Lynne,
It is indeed very complex because we cannot put limits on how militaristic society we want to be. Once you go down that route, new self-organizing phenomena emerge, such as violent settlers and political groups who want to engage in ethnic cleansing because they've convinced themselves there is no other option.
As for the ceremony, there was certainly no denying of the Oct. 7 atrocities. The point about the soldiers were they were left out, but I would be careful to draw conclusions that define the whole movement. I can say that Israeli parents who lost soldier children have been a part of previous ceremonies. Why not this time, I don't know.
very well said